Gold of Sunshine- discussing Dead lyrics

[Pink11]

“Perchance to dream…”
That makes sense… I thought the words were
“Sleeping every chance to dream..” which makes no sense at all .. no wonder I do not understand this song…
As Rosanna Rosanna danna would say..
Nevermind.

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[Tone Weaver]

Good choice Pink11
I’m not the one to over think lyrics, but here ya go

Althea, these lyrics I always found intriguing

You may be the fate of Ophelia
Sleeping and perchance to dream -
Honest to the point of recklessness
Self centered to the extreme

"Ophelia Sleeping and perchance to dream" is a reference to Hamlet.

A challenging "Jeopardy " category for most.

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A challenging "Jeopardy " category for most.
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What is Shakespeare?

[I'llflyaway]

Thanks for the good feedback Illflyaway.
Without thinking too much about it, I guess I see Must’ve been the Roses as a commentary on the fleeting nature of youth I’ll check out that book by Faulkner. I think Hunter said he liked that song a lot.

I think you are right, the fleeting nature of youth and even life is part of it but I think Hunter gets much darker in this case. I believe he is tapping into the American or even Southern Gothic tradition as personified by folks like Faulkner.

Interesting references to Faulkner in IMHBTR. In Roses it is ten years that the narrator is watching "the waves blow ship in from the sea" wondering about good company. In A Rose for Emily, it is ten years from the time of the mysterious disappearance of her suitor, Homer Bannon, and the time of Emily's funeral when the the townsfolk are finally able to enter her house.

Also when they finally break into her upstairs locked bedroom, the rose- coloured window blinds are described as faded which is definately symbolic of decay and faded youth or vitality. In IMHBTR, it is Annie's ribbons which are described as faded which I think Hunter uses to convey the same idea.

The real clues, I think, come in Hunter's lyrics: ( I'm paraphrasing here)

"If I tell another what your own lips told to me
Lay me down 'neath the roses till my eyes no longer see"

Here roses symbolize death perhaps a funeral arrangement.

And once the stranger in the song enters the narrators house and closes the door:

"Faded is the crimson from the ribbons that she wore
And it's strange how noone comes round here no more"

Emily is the last of a fallen aristocratic southern family. Her father could simply not understand that after the civil war the era of the Antebellum South had passed and his era of privilege and glory had would never come back. Emily is a metaphor for the decay that sets in when it is impossible to adapt to change or to accept loss. In Emily's case her madness is a symptom of not being able to let go or change no matter how she tried. Her fate was sealed by privilege and the circumstance of her heritage.

In It Must Have Been the Roses, I think Annie must have been the love of the narrators life and when she lay her head down In the roses, probably still quite young from the ribbons in her long brown hair...

He just could not leave her there.

I wonder if we are trapped in the same rigidity and inability to accept change today and if that is not part of some of the madness in the world today. Perhaps I'm taking the metaphor too far.

Sometimes I play this to people just to see if they get it. My own perverse sense of humour.

[Nycdave]

Well written tunes about shoes & weather:

“ I lost my boots in transit babe
A pile of smoking leather
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather.”

“Good to know you got shoes to wear, when you find the floor
Why hold out for more.”

[SunshineSue]

Well written tunes about shoes & weather:

“ I lost my boots in transit babe
A pile of smoking leather
Nailed a retread to my feet
and prayed for better weather.”

I can tell I tend to be too literal when it comes to lyrics, because though this song is a favorite, the "nailed a retread to my feet" always bothered me a bit, makes me go "ouch!". But the verse as a whole paints such a great picture, I have to love it!

[Pink11]

Thanks for the good feedback Illflyaway.
Without thinking too much about it, I guess I see Must’ve been the Roses as a commentary on the fleeting nature of youth I’ll check out that book by Faulkner. I think Hunter said he liked that song a lot.

I think you are right, the fleeting nature of youth and even life is part of it but I think Hunter gets much darker in this case. I believe he is tapping into the American or even Southern Gothic tradition as personified by folks like Faulkner.

Interesting references to Faulkner in IMHBTR. In Roses it is ten years that the narrator is watching "the waves blow ship in from the sea" wondering about good company. In A Rose for Emily, it is ten years from the time of the mysterious disappearance of her suitor, Homer Bannon, and the time of Emily's funeral when the the townsfolk are finally able to enter her house.

Also when they finally break into her upstairs locked bedroom, the rose- coloured window blinds are described as faded which is definately symbolic of decay and faded youth or vitality. In IMHBTR, it is Annie's ribbons which are described as faded which I think Hunter uses to convey the same idea.

The real clues, I think, come in Hunter's lyrics: ( I'm paraphrasing here)

"If I tell another what your own lips told to me
Lay me down 'neath the roses till my eyes no longer see"

Here roses symbolize death perhaps a funeral arrangement.

And once the stranger in the song enters the narrators house and closes the door:

"Faded is the crimson from the ribbons that she wore
And it's strange how noone comes round here no more"

Emily is the last of a fallen aristocratic southern family. Her father could simply not understand that after the civil war the era of the Antebellum South had passed and his era of privilege and glory had would never come back. Emily is a metaphor for the decay that sets in when it is impossible to adapt to change or to accept loss. In Emily's case her madness is a symptom of not being able to let go or change no matter how she tried. Her fate was sealed by privilege and the circumstance of her heritage.

In It Must Have Been the Roses, I think Annie must have been the love of the narrators life and when she lay her head down In the roses, probably still quite young from the ribbons in her long brown hair...

He just could not leave her there.

I wonder if we are trapped in the same rigidity and inability to accept change today and if that is not part of some of the madness in the world today. Perhaps I'm taking the metaphor too far.

Sometimes I play this to people just to see if they get it. My own perverse sense of humour.

You got me thinking more about this song..
I think you are right about the reference to roses and death- maybe Annie is dead….
Anyway, it got me thinking of a favorite poem by Poe:

It was many and many a year ago,
In a kingdom by the sea,
That a maiden there lived whom you may know
By the name of Annabel Lee;
And this maiden she lived with no other thought
Than to love and be loved by me.

I was a child and she was a child,
In this kingdom by the sea:
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
I and my Annabel Lee;
With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven
Coveted her and me.

And this was the reason that, long ago,
In this kingdom by the sea,
A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling
My beautiful Annabel Lee;
So that her highborn kinsman came
And bore her away from me,
To shut her up in a sepulchre
In this kingdom by the sea.

The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
Went envying her and me—
Yes!—that was the reason (as all men know,
In this kingdom by the sea)
That the wind came out of the cloud by night,
Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

But our love it was stronger by far than the love
Of those who were older than we—
Of many far wiser than we—
And neither the angels in heaven above,
Nor the demons down under the sea,
Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee:

For the moon never beams, without bringing me dreams
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And the stars never rise, but I feel the bright eyes
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
Of my darling—my darling—my life and my bride,
In her sepulchre there by the sea,
In her tomb by the sounding sea.

From The Works of the Late Edgar Allan Poe, vol. II, 1850

[I'llflyaway]

You got me thinking more about this song..
I think you are right about the reference to roses and death- maybe Annie is dead….
Anyway, it got me thinking of a favorite poem by Poe:

It was many and many a year ago,
In a kingdom by the sea,
That a maiden there lived whom you may know
By the name of Annabel Lee;
And this maiden she lived with no other thought
Than to love and be loved by me.

I was a child and she was a child,
In this kingdom by the sea:
But we loved with a love that was more than love—
I and my Annabel Lee;
With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven
Coveted her and me.

And this was the reason that, long ago,
In this kingdom by the sea,
A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling
My beautiful Annabel Lee;
So that her highborn kinsman came
And bore her away from me,
To shut her up in a sepulchre
In this kingdom by the sea.

The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
Went envying her and me—
Yes!—that was the reason (as all men know,
In this kingdom by the sea)
That the wind came out of the cloud by night,
Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

But our love it was stronger by far than the love
Of those who were older than we—
Of many far wiser than we—
And neither the angels in heaven above,
Nor the demons down under the sea,
Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee:

For the moon never beams, without bringing me dreams
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And the stars never rise, but I feel the bright eyes
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
Of my darling—my darling—my life and my bride,
In her sepulchre there by the sea,
In her tomb by the sounding sea.

From The Works of the Late Edgar Allan Poe, vol. II, 1850

Nice! I'd never read that one before. Poe was another strange cat wasn't he?

I'm sensing a theme here.

[Nycdave]

David Dodd, who put together a book called “The Complete Annotated Grateful Dead Lyrics” wrote the following about China Doll;
“ Just a little nervous from the fall.” Is there a more beautiful, beautifully-sung, and stunningly-recorded phrase in all of music? OK, so maybe in something by Brahms, or on Abbey Road, or in some other exquisite piece of music. But I cannot count the number of times over the years that I have been brought up short by that phrase as performed and captured on Mars Hotel. And there’s so much behind it, by the point it happens in the song, that it just takes my breath away. I think that is what the phrase is meant to do, both lyrically and musically, and it succeeds.
But what all happens up to that point in the song?
It’s pretty well-known that the song is “about” (how I hate that concept sometimes…) suicide. Or, maybe, a suicide. Its working title was “The Suicide Song.”
Hard to imagine tackling a much heavier topic than this. “Seeking all that’s still unsung” is a job not for the faint of heart. I think we can agree that Robert Hunter is anything but faint-hearted. But—suicide?
What is the story in the song? As always with Hunter, ambiguity abounds, of course, so anything I say should be taken with a giant block of salt.
A conversation is underway. (Or, perhaps it is a monologue, with the singer/narrator addressing another. I find this unlikely, since Hunter’s version of the lyrics as presented in A Box of Rain contains pretty specifically-implemented dialogue indicators, by way of italicized and non-italicized text. Of course, a listener wouldn’t see those on the page, and the band never used two singers ((as in “Jack Straw”)) to differentiate the voices.) Whichever, a series of events is related.
There was a pistol shot. It happened at such-and-such a time. The “bells of heaven” ring. Those events could be the voice of a third-party narrator.
Then: Tell me what you done it for. That sounds like the voice, either of an aggrieved lover, a friend, or perhaps a being at the gate of heaven.
The response’s meaning is colored by whichever of those possible voices you want to consider. Now we have several potential directions in which the song could be heading all at once. And is heading, because of the number of listeners. I only mentioned three possibilities, and I am pretty certain that only scratches the surface, depending on the frame of reference of the listener.
As the dialogue is laid out, the conversation goes like this:
Voice A (The Interrogator): Tell me what you done it for.
Voice B (The Suicide): “No I won’t tell you a thing. Yesterday I begged you before I hit the ground—all I leave behind me is only what I found. If you can abide it let the hurdy-gurdy play—Stranger ones have come by here before they flew away. I will not condemn you, nor yet would I deny….”
Voice A: I would ask the same of you, but failing will not die. Take up your china doll. It’s only fractured—and just a little nervous from the fall
OK—this is a complicated conversation, with a great deal of backstory missing, and no narrative to explain. So the story is ours to create. Is the first voice saying, with the final response, that dying was not the logical consequence of doing what Voice B asked “yesterday”? And what could it have been that the suicide had begged of the interrogator? We can only speculate.
As with the real human beings we come in touch with every day, we really know practically nothing of their history, what they have through or are currently going through. We are encountering each other in the dark, and that kind of encounter requires extreme care.
What I really wonder about this song is whether it achieves for others what it achieves for me, which is, as almost always with Hunter’s songs, a feeling of empathy for the characters. There is not a right and wrong here. The interrogator does not offer condemnation, just as the suicide does not. Both characters have reasons for their actions, and both are worthy of our sympathy and understanding.
The manner in which Garcia set this song is another example of songwriting collaboration perfection. And the Mars Hotel recording, with the harpsichord-like (maybe actually a harpsichord?) keyboard part, supports the concept absolutely. It’s a tender song in every way—things have been fractured, but perhaps they can be, in some sense, salvaged.
As a final note, I love it that the final line is followed up by a “la la la” tag. It’s reminiscent of the final “verse” of “Ripple.” There is something about the use of syllables that carry no explicit meaning that allows them to be invested with whatever meaning is ready to be heard by the listener. Us.”